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Post by Deux on Nov 25, 2009 21:50:04 GMT -8
“The ends is whatever is required of be by those who are directing me. For example the Captain is the one I am taking orders from now. He ordered me to stand guard at your cell and keep you from escaping. Until those orders change that is exactly what I will do to the best of my ability. So in this case I am the Captain’s tool,” he explained.
“I do what I must and try to remain at optimal operating capacity. Like…” Deux stopped and uncrossed his legs. He lifted up his right pant leg and pulled the knife he had tucked in boot out, “like one of these. This is one of my backups, it’s dull and while it has it’s uses it isn’t at the most dependable.” Deux flicked his thumb across the blade to show that it was in fact dull before placing it back in his boot.
“However,” he reached into his left sleeve and unsheathed the blade hidden there, “when I am at my best, I am most useful.” Deux slipped the blade under his sleeve and pulled upward. The blade cut through the fabric like the only resistance had been air.
He calmly tucked the blade back into it’s place and looked at Kaden with his usual blank expression, “Was that answer elaborate enough or do you need me to continue?” Help hoped that was explaination enough, since he wasn’t sure what else to say.
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Post by Kaden on Nov 25, 2009 21:58:20 GMT -8
Kaden replayed Deux's answer, mulling over it a bit and wondering how to proceed. He unconsciously nodded as he did so and scratched the stubble that was starting to grow on his cheeks, making a rough scritching sound. He liked to be clean shaven but of course he wasn't allowed a knife or a razor.
"Are you the only tool?" he finally asked. "Are you the only one who serves in this capacity? Or does the Captain serve too? Do I?"
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Post by Deux on Nov 25, 2009 22:09:22 GMT -8
“Yes,” Deux said, “I function however I am needed too to complete a task” He blinked and thought at the other questions. The Captain did not appear to take orders. Kaden on the other hand he had been given orders but refused to follow them. Deux looked idly at the spot on his sleeve he had cut through and wondered if he could have it repaired by someone on the ship or at least be given the material to fix it himself.
“From what I have seen, no, others do not,” he answered, “not the Captain and certainly not you.” He felt a lightness within him at the end of the sentence.
“Why is that?” He rested his hands on his legs, “Why don’t you listen to the Captain?”
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Post by Kaden on Nov 25, 2009 22:22:25 GMT -8
"I follow orders Deux, as a soldier I took an oath to follow orders, just not the Captain's." Kaden smiled. He actually liked where this was going. There were merits to this method. The hope was the teacher learned something as well as the student.
"Even the Captain follows orders. We all do. If you do not believe that try imagining how long the captain would last if he did not eat, if he did not sleep, if he did not breath. Not all orders are given by men would you agree?"
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Post by Deux on Nov 25, 2009 22:33:17 GMT -8
Deux raised a hand so he could tap his thumb against his lower lip. “So the Captian’s orders are in conflict with your previous ones?” he theorized. That was how he operated, following any given unless they contradicted his other ones, especially from those of higher authority.
“Yes, some are given by a woman,” he stopped and felt something much like fear run through him, “I mean can be given by women. Men are not the only gender who can issue instructions. As for your other statements, aren’t those instincts and normal human function?”
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Post by Kaden on Nov 25, 2009 23:09:02 GMT -8
"Um, yes women can give orders as well as men," Kaden continued confused for a moment but decided to ignore the odd aberration. He was already starting to catch on to the fact that Deux was more than a little odd. If he tried to track down each and every clue that Deux dropped about his past he would end up lost in a labyrinth.
"But the orders that are the most important, the ones we all must follow, are those given by nature. The laws of physics. Gravity being the easiest example. As living creatures, at least as living creatures composed the way we are, we have urges that we all must follow. Often we speak of a desire for food or drink but the word desire is misleading. If we don't eat or drink we don't live. Wouldn't you call those orders?"
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Post by Deux on Nov 25, 2009 23:26:01 GMT -8
“I would call them needs,” he answered flatly before for adding, “but I believe I can see how you could consider them as such.”
Deux tilted his head back and considered what he had said. He could make the choice not to eat and die but he would rather not. The only reason he had not too was either lack of food or being ordered not to eat. One would hope neither of those came to pass. Gravity, that made sense, it could not be denied not without technology. That exception still fell under the laws of physics.
“Wait,” Deux’s head snapped forward and his eyes locked on Kaden, “Don’t you defy the laws of physics every time you teleport?”
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Post by Kaden on Nov 25, 2009 23:43:24 GMT -8
"Perhaps or maybe we just don't know how it works yet. I don't believe the laws of physics can be broken so I'm sure there is an explanation. And, yes, the order/need terminology is a bit awkward. I'll be honest, I'm feeling things out as we go. How about, from now on we call anything that we are compelled to obey a law? The law of hunger. The law of gravity. When the captain gives you an order you have to follow it. On this ship his word is law and the only thing that justifies my disobedience is that this ship is still flying through UIR space and is subject to the UIR's laws, one of which is that a military officer follows all orders given by a superior officer until such a time as he or she is given new orders by an officer of equal or higher rank. The captain does not qualify."
Kaden sat back and tried to think of where to go next. "Who makes the laws we are compelled to obey? The bigger, more universal ones are harder to track down and philosophers and scientist have been trying to figure it out for ages. Why is the universe the way it is? We're going to avoid that level of law for right now. Let's start where you started. The captain's laws. He makes them, you follow them. Why? And why do those around you...for the most part, do the same?"
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Post by Deux on Nov 27, 2009 17:16:37 GMT -8
“Alright,” Deux said, “Laws.” As Kaden continued Deux felt more lost in the conversation. It had already difficult when he referred to eating as an order. Despite this, Deux still made the effort to listen to the man. That did nothing for his understanding of the subject but hopefully the attempt would be noted.
“I obey his law because I am instructed to do so. I don’t know why the crew follows the Captain,” he stopped to consider the reasons, “Perhaps it is because he is a higher authority or they are under the threat of some form of punishment for disobedience.”
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Post by Kaden on Nov 27, 2009 19:30:19 GMT -8
Again Kaden had to stop and try to figure out how to proceed so he rested his head against the back of the cell and looked out at Deux. He let his mind passively observe Deux as he thought about how to proceed.
"What type of punishment?" he finally asked hoping that it would set them on the right path. He was trying to somehow get Deux to learn the same lessons he'd been taught. The only problem was he'd been taught the same way he was trying to teach now and with this method you hardly remembered how you got to your conclusions, just the conclusions themselves. And as each conclusion became just a step in learning the next conclusion they in turn were forgotten. The student was left with a whole world view and could no longer discern the individual pieces that made it up. So he was struggling to figure out the pieces and give them to Deux or get Deux to pick them up himself.
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Post by Deux on Nov 27, 2009 21:06:55 GMT -8
Deux blinked blankly at Kaden. He wasn’t sure if the question was in need of a specific answer or a general one. While his concern about answering wrong had gone down, Kaden hadn’t yelled at him yet, he still wanted to be as correct as possible.
“There are several forms,” he held up a hand and began counting off the methods,” Verbal, physical injury, emotional, withholding of items or pay, imprisonment, isolation and even death. Though, the only times I’ve heard the Captain imply using the last one is when he is addressing you.”
As he was talking about punishments Deux began rubbing his right shoulder subconsciously. His brother had often used a degree of the first two or three methods when he was displeased. While pain never really affected him, he acknowledged it but he didn’t obsess over it like those around him, but it did well to emphasis the fact that he had failed. His brother would stop talking to him altogether for days. It was around those times that Deux actually tried to record the days as they passed. Deux could never remember disobeying an order, yet multiple times he was unable to follow them to completion and success.
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Post by Kaden on Nov 28, 2009 2:04:06 GMT -8
"So a punishment is any situation that is displeasing to the one who is enduring it yes? And, on this ship, when an order is not obeyed it is the captain that causes these types of situations to come into existence. Would you agree?"
Kaden forgot why defining things was important, he just remembered they'd done a lot of it at the early stages. He supposed it helped cut down on confusion later if the teacher and the student shared a vocabulary that they'd both agreed on.
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Post by Deux on Nov 28, 2009 21:14:14 GMT -8
“I suppose,” Deux shrugged, “I can agree with that.”
Unfortunately he didn’t feel confident in his answer. The only person he could recall the Captain punishing was Kaden. He had raised his voice to members of the crew on a few occasions and got them to be more productive. He hadn’t actually punished them however just spoken to them harshly for ill behavior.
His eyes flickered between Kaden and the floor. Unsure if his next statement would relate at all with what the man was saying. “There is also the threat of punishment,” he tapped a finger against his leg, “the idea of finding oneself in a situation that is displeasing, discourages disobedience.”
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Post by Kaden on Nov 29, 2009 8:17:41 GMT -8
Kaden smiled when he heard Deux's question. He was glad Deux was thinking ahead and engaging in the material. It made him feel like maybe he wasn't doing such a bad job after all. He wished he could give Deux over to a real teacher, someone who had been using this method for years and had perfected it. But he was all there was around right now so he'd have to do. At least he wasn't doing a terrible job.
"Yes there is. So let's go over with what we've got so far and you tell me if it sounds right to you. So far we've determined that a law is anything we are compelled to obey. There are many different layers of laws and the more the law effects the harder it is to break. For instance, if you break the law of the captain's word you will only get punished on this ship for that is the only place it applies. But you'll have a hard time breaking the law of gravity because it applies to the entire universe as far as we've found."
"When laws are broken you face punishments. When you defy the captain's law you end up in the brig," Kaden said with a smile, looking around at his current accommodations. "Or you could lose out on a share of the profits. Or you could die. If you break the law of hunger you will starve. And the "law," Kaden said, using air quotes, "of hunger is really just a lot of more fundamental laws at work. Laws that control energy and how it can not be created or destroyed. Since your body is using energy to live it has to constantly replace it by eating food. It can't just create it out of nothing. That's an oversimplification of how our bodies work but you get the idea."
"A punishment is any situation which the one who is forced to endure it would find unpleasant or detrimental to one's well being. And the threat or the fear of enduring that state keeps us from breaking the laws we work under. We fear to starve so we eat. The crew does not want to end up in the brig or to loose a piece of their wages so they follow orders."
Kaden had been staring at the cell floor as he spoke, putting the pieces together as he'd gone along. He looked up at Deux now. "Does all of that makes sense? Do you think that's what we've determined already or have I missed something or added in something that wasn't there before?"
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Post by Deux on Nov 30, 2009 11:25:31 GMT -8
Deux leaned forward and listened to Kaden. He nodded after every part he recognizes, relating it back to what Kaden had previously said. The topic still didn’t seem to relate to the man’s original point, rights and responsibilities, but he supposed if took it just as an independent conversation the discussion made more sense. After digesting that thought Deux let the others sink in. It was still confusing to him, but much more palatable.
“I supposed it makes sense,” he said flatly, “You added to the law of hunger, you mentioned laws regarding energy. That was not discussed previously.”
“Could you tell me if there is a specific meaning to this,” Deux asked repeating the air quote gesture. He didn’t want to misinterpret something Kaden had said just because he was not familiar with a possibly common sign.
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