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Post by Kaden on Nov 30, 2009 20:13:18 GMT -8
"Well you asked me about the rights and responsibilities one has as a member of a community. I am trying to answer your question in the best way I know how but I was not taught each answer individually, I was taught as I'm trying to teach you now."
Kaden stood up and walked closer to the bars but he never liked getting too close to Deux. When he did he started to feel slightly sick, something he attributed to whatever ability the boy had to block his teleportation. Instead he paced the length of his cell a few feet away.
"Think of it this way. Our minds are like a room. If left alone we would learn through out our entire lives, picking up bits of knowledge as we came upon them. But each piece would get thrown into our room and our minds would start to resemble a spare closet. Everything would be there, but it would all be in disarray and it would be difficult to find anything we needed or to see the relations between various types of knowledge."
"What my teachers sought to do, and what I'm trying to do, is give you a framework that everything you learn from now on can be fit into. It is like setting up the room, cleaning it, so that when you acquire new knowledge it is easy to see where it can be placed and how it relates to everything else you already know. We are human so our minds will never be completely organized just as any living space is never %100 clean, I've only ever seen that when dealing with machines or androids, but it makes things neater."
"Hopefully, when we are done, you will have a complete picture of the world and its basics principles so that you will be able to see how each thing, each person, each action relates and affects each other. It will become clear why the very act of breathing, of being human or at least an intelligent life form, makes you a part of a community and what responsibilities comes along with that. Does that make sense Deux?"
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Post by Deux on Nov 30, 2009 22:39:49 GMT -8
For a moment Deux blinked owlishly at Kaden’s turn in speech. He was surprised by how directly he was addressing his previous thoughts without him speaking them. The surprise quickly faded, as he reasoned that he was either easy to read or that he had in fact said something out loud. It would not have been the first time for the later. Deux sat quietly with his head slightly tilted to the right.
When Kaden was done he sat and stared at the man for approximately a minute. He made a slight clicking noise with his tongue before standing up. Even standing he still had to look up at the man but it seemed appropriate to be at a similar level.
“You’re very confusing,” he started slowly but picked up as he continued, “You speak in symbols and don’t seem very direct. Regardless I think I understand you. The fact I am experiencing both thoughts at the same time may be why I find you confusing.”
“Like what you are saying about the room,” Deux shrugged, “after you finished I believe I knew what you meant. So do you make sense? Vaguely, but I do understand you. If that makes any sense.” The part about the closet probably did describe Deux’s headspace. His brother had never been a very structured teacher with the exception of training. Aside from combat and weapons his lessons were random, vague, and inconsistent. “If I am incorrect, I’m assuming you will continue explaining until I am in the correct frame of mind.”
“Also, you still haven’t explained what this means,” he repeated the hand gesture from earlier.
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Post by Kaden on Nov 30, 2009 22:53:24 GMT -8
It was Kaden's turn to blink as Deux mimed his air quote hand gesture. He realized that Deux had been asking about that hand gesture specifically and not asking what Kaden meant in general. Which would fit with what he had just said. He seemed to speak and think entirely literally which was quite odd.
He was a pretty literal thinker himself but Deux spoke like a machine, and not even an android trained to interface well with human society. He spoke like the machines spoke when among their own kind. Kaden had once, and only once, been taken to a party attended entirely by androids. It had been back on Earth and his tutor had invited him. It had been a very very boring affair. The machines had hardly deemed to speak out loud since they could instantly communicate much more information via their link. It was like attending a party of mind readers where you were the only deaf one. Still, when they did speak out loud, they sounded a lot like Deux.
"It, well, I am not sure how to explain it. I never learned it until I got to Earth and I've only ever seen it used, it was never explained to me in so many words. I guess it is used when you want to indicate that something is not completely true. Maybe that it should be taken metaphorically or that it is a joke, as in it should be obvious to all parties involved that what you are saying is not true and some how this should be humorous. I never understood why exactly," Kaden said, looking off into a corner.
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Post by Deux on Nov 30, 2009 23:11:42 GMT -8
Deux nodded at Kaden’s explanation but wasn’t completely clear on it. Though the context in which it was used may have been what was throwing him off. He made a silent decision to remember what the gesture meant but never to use it. To have a vague sense of understanding was one thing, to try and act with the same lack of knowledge was another matter. Kaden not totally understanding it and yet using was another thing he added to the list of he did not get about the man. He’d have to figure out Kaden later though, now he was just trying to understand laws and rights.
“So, where you speaking in an attempt to be humorous or was something you were saying about the law not completely true?” he asked.
He shifted slightly and added, ”If you were trying to be humorous I’m sorry did not pick up on it.”
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Post by Kaden on Nov 30, 2009 23:18:26 GMT -8
Kaden smiled his one sided smile when he heard Deux's reply. "That's ok, I wasn't. In that case I think the air quotes were more meant to indicate that the word law was meant to be taken metaphorically as opposed to a literal law that is written down."
"So, since we can agree on our vocabulary I suppose we should continue. We've determined that there are laws, punishments and the fear of punishment. Tell me, if you disobeyed an order, is the captain the only one who would punish you? For instance, I'm sure there is an unspoken rule on this ship that you don't open airlocks to vacuum. If you were to open one and survived I'm sure the captain would punish you. But is the captain's punishment the only reason not to open an airlock?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 1, 2009 21:48:03 GMT -8
Deux nodded at the explaination. That was what he originally assumed the gesture meant but his explanation had lead him to question that. He was thankful he was correct. Concern take care of he returned his full attention to Kaden.
He opened his mouth answer his first question but closed it when the man continued. Deux frowned at the proposed situation. “Why would I open an airlock?” he asked out loud but did not wait for an answer. Exhaling he tilted his head and looked off in thought.
“Other than the fact I cannot think of a reason to do so,” he responded, “It would possibly result in unnecessary damage, death and a general distraction from one going operations of the ship. Unauthorized actions such as opening an airlock would probably sound an alarm, could cause unnecessary panic among the crew as well.”
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Post by Kaden on Dec 1, 2009 22:02:42 GMT -8
"So would you say that the situation caused by opening the airlock is a punishment in itself completely independent of what Greg would or would not do keeping in mind what our working definition of punishment is?" Kaden asked, his eyes narrowed in concentration as he closely watched Deux. He felt like they were getting closer to answering Deux's first question and closer to the most fundamental lesson he had been taught about communities. They weren't yet, but for the first time since the conversation started he could see a clear path to his goal.
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Post by Deux on Dec 1, 2009 22:20:46 GMT -8
“I suppose,” Deux shrugged. He noticed Kaden’s eyes and returned him with a sideways glance. “It would have no benefit, unless I needed to create a distraction. Even then there are better ways of doing that.”
He crossed his arms when he finished. A tightness appeared in his chest and he felt like he was being judged. Unsure of how sufficient his answer was he considered ways of extending it but had difficulty doing so. Exhaling again he shifted his weight and tilted his head back into the upright position.
“I wouldn’t want to deal with the aftermath, if that’s what you’re asking,” he finally said.
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Post by Kaden on Dec 1, 2009 22:33:57 GMT -8
"Well, yes." Kaden took a minute to try to think of another scenario that would demonstrate the principle he was trying to reach and that would be inside Deux's experience. It was difficult because the ship was an artificial and human maintained environment and yet he didn't want to step outside of the ship just yet. It as a useful example to work with because it was a small, contained community.
"Alright, what about this. There is a sign above the door leading to the jump drive room that says 'Do not enter without containment suit.' Kaden had been escorted past the sign on his way down here. He'd taken special note of it because he figured it might be useful to know where the ships jump drive was. The sign itself wasn't that remarkable. The same warning sign would be on almost any ship and he'd seen it on Fleet vessels often enough. They were as common and expected as exit signs and emergency fire suppressing equipment so he was fairly confident about quoting what the sign said.
"Would you walk into the room without a containment suit, why or why not?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 1, 2009 22:55:26 GMT -8
“No I would not,” Deux said, “if the sign is there then most likely something in the room is hazardous. Ignoring it would result in possible harm to myself or death. I would also be choosing an extremely painful way to die. Possibly slow as well.”
Deux may not have expressed when he was in pain, or harped on it like he saw other members of the crew do, but he still felt it. It was not an enjoyable experience. A drawn out, painful and avoidable death was not in his best interest, or something he wanted to do at all.
“I’m at a loss to try and figure out a situation in which that would be a consideration of mine,” he shook his head. The airlock had a possible purpose, walking into a jump drive room with a suit was suicidal.
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Post by Kaden on Dec 1, 2009 23:04:13 GMT -8
"So I think we have discovered one of the purposes for laws. They are meant to protect us from the dangers of the surrounding environment. This purpose of law is most applicable to laws humans create for themselves and, for now, that is the law we are going to explore since laws help shape communities and your initial question was about a specific human community, the UIR."
Kaden leaned back and stopped staring so intently. He was excited because he felt they were getting closer and it caused him to rush just a bit. Ideally he should have stopped to see if Deux agreed but instead he just jumped into the next example.
"Is there a law on ship regarding murder and, if so, how would you phrase it?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 1, 2009 23:16:40 GMT -8
“If you say so,” he uncrossed his arms and let them hang at his sides. Listening to the explanation he nodded absently. Yet Kaden was seeming to bring it back to the original question as he said.
He lifted one hand and tapped against his chin, “Not that I have heard explicitly. The Captain has threatened to kill you a number of times but given the circumstance I suppose he would consider that an execution.”
Deux let his hand fall back at his side. He wondered for a moment what exactly the “laws” on the ship were. No one had ever explicitly told him any when he boarded. The only law he had as of right now, were his orders.
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Post by Kaden on Dec 1, 2009 23:23:51 GMT -8
"Hmm. Well Deux I want you to try to start seeing laws even when they are unspoken. The easiest way to find them is to see what is never are almost never done."
Kaden tapped his nails against the floor. He wasn't impatient exactly, he was just a little stumped. "Well, let me ask this? Do you ever see any crew member kill another? Do you get the feeling that it would be acceptable for," he searched his memory for a crew member's name but could only remember one, "Mr. Archer to begin to kill his fellow crew members? What would happen if he did?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 1, 2009 23:51:50 GMT -8
Deux nodded, “Alright.” The task did not sound too difficult, now if it proved not to be it would be convenient. It was observation. He had done that in the mess hall and around the ship. A skill which had allowed him to use some new phrases, he believed correctly, and new gestures other than Kaden’s odd one. Instead of looking the things individuals did, now he would look for what they did not do. Negative spaces in behavior, suddenly he was beginning to doubt the simplicity of the task.
“No I haven’t,” he began then paused to let Kaden finish.
“I depends on why he would kill them. If it is self defense, yes it would be acceptable. If he was ordered to, yes. If he was acting irrationally or without instruction, no it would not be acceptable. In the case of self defense there is always the possibility he would be injured or killed as well. As for if he acted for an unknown reason I would assume he would either end up in one of these cells, or kill either by a would be victim in their own self defense or as means of stopping him and as punishment,” Deux said.
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Post by Kaden on Dec 2, 2009 0:01:24 GMT -8
"A very complete answer," Kaden said as he nodded his approval. "Yes, there are reasons to kill but if he had no reason he would be punished which means a law must be in effect. So the job of some laws is to protect us from our environment. What would you say is the purpose of a law against senseless killing? To help you answer perhaps consider what would happen if Mr. Archer were allowed to kill senselessly without punishment. In short, what would happen if the law did not exist?"
Kaden sat back, waiting for Deux's answer. He wasn't sure what it would be and that was part of the fun of this conversation. So far, Deux had managed to surprise him.
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