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Post by Deux on Dec 2, 2009 22:05:27 GMT -8
Deux straightened up when he heard that Kaden’s comment about his answer. Unlike the other times he did so on reflex, Deux did not feel stressed or tense. Thankful that his answer was sufficient and perhaps something else he couldn’t determine.
“For protection,” he reasoned, “If there was the constant fear of irrational death, things would be much more difficult and I would have to carry more than knives. If there is a way to discourage the threat, then people feel more secure. I suppose that if the law did not exist there would not only be an increase in the number of murders that occur but also in the hostilities as well. It would also be much harder to make people follow the other laws in existence, I believe.”
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Post by Kaden on Dec 3, 2009 2:24:46 GMT -8
Kaden again had to chew on Deux's answer. It wasn't that it was wrong, it was that it was too right, too complete. Deux had jumped ahead a couple of steps and Kaden was trying to figure out how to catch up and how to get them back on track.
"Yes," Kaden said, still distracted and wondering what question to ask next. "Alright, let me propose a situation. I'll tell a story and you tell me how it would end."
"One day Mr. Archer walked into the mess hall, assuming you have one, and killed the cook. Assuming that the rest of the crew did not panic and that Mr. Archer did not threaten their own lives, one of them immediately finds the captain and lets him know what happened. Instead of throwing Mr. Archer into the Brig he shrugs his shoulders and tells the reporting crew member to go away."
"The next day Mr. Archer, for unknown reasons, kills the crew member who reported him. He did not try to hide his actions, again he killed this crew member publicly in the mess hall."
"As you have described an air of fear begins to permeate the ship. People are afraid that Mr. Archer will kill anyone at any time and the captain will stand by and let it happen."
"Two weeks go by and some days Mr. Archer killed someone and some days he did not. The total death count is now 9 and the ship puts into port. Assuming that no one reported the murders to the authorities, in short, assuming the crew members were the only ones aware of the situation, what would they choose to do?"
Kaden had intended to ask Deux what he would do but he was starting to get the feeling that Deux would answer he would follow orders, even if it meant sharing close quarters with a homicidal maniac. At first Kaden had admired his attitude but it was starting to worry him. It was true, too many people in the galaxy had no sense of discipline or respect for authority, but no man followed every order all the time. In fact, thoughtless, perfect obedience was as unethical as murder, or so he had been taught.
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Post by Deux on Dec 6, 2009 12:27:01 GMT -8
Deux tilted his head again at the story. It was just a story but it did not make sense. Humans did not behave in such a manner. Pushing past his initial problems with the situation, Deux took a few minutes to consider it.
“Frankly I’m surprised he got up to nine,” he said, “and that the Captain was so willing to accept the fact Archer had killed one of his more skilled crew members.”
He leaned back and supported himself with both hands, placing them equal distance apart, “I suppose a crew member would eventually kill him, either in self defense or as a preemptive strike. Seeing as that he has not been punished for murdering, the individual that kills him most likely would not be punished as well. Also Archer does not appear to be an effective serial killer. If they were really concerned they would just kill him in his sleep.”
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Post by Kaden on Dec 6, 2009 23:40:30 GMT -8
Kaden watched Deux while he thought of his answer though he tried to remain nonchalant about it so that Deux would not begin to feel self conscience.
When Deux did answer Kaden had to take a moment to figure out what to do. Deux's answer led down an interesting path but it was not the one they needed to walk. On one hand he knew that it was important to just flow with the conversation wherever it led but he had wanted to get to a specific place so he chose to break the rules of this teaching method a little.
"Ah, well we'll discuss what would happen if people were stuck on this ship later. It is true, I think if people could never leave they would kill Archer. But I asked what would happen when the ship put into port?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 8, 2009 23:39:03 GMT -8
Deux tilted his head again at Kaden’s response. He blinked and leaned backward, resting one hand on top of the other. In his mind, the situation would have been taken care of by the crew in absence of an authority figure. When he first considered Kaden’s story he had thought the crew had elected not to tell those at the port what was going on, either out of fear or concern that it would draw to much attention to the ship. Tapping his thumb lightly against the back of his other hand, he considered that he may have misinterpreted what Kaden said.
“If it was within their ability,” Deux tried to word his sentence carefully, “They would report the incidents to an official at that port. If they are unable to, they would most likely leave the ship internally. As you stated, they are not trapped within it. Though I imagine the majority would not inform the Captain of their departure, just pack up valuables and necessities and never return.”
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Post by Kaden on Dec 9, 2009 20:07:59 GMT -8
Kaden nodded and stood up. That was exactly the answer he had hoped to reach. He began to pace the length of the cell as he thought through the point he wanted to make and the best path that would get them there. He wanted to make sure he asked the right questions.
After deciding on what he hoped was the right path he turned to Deux. "So would you agree that the community made up of the crew members of this ship would completely dissolve in the absence of a rule against reasonless murder?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 11, 2009 18:12:10 GMT -8
“Perhaps,” Deux said, “but I do not think the community will dissolve completely. A majority perhaps but not all, some of the crew would stay behind. Either out of loyalty, a contract, being unfamiliar with the location they find themselves in or fear of another outside force.”
He lifted his right hand looked at his palm before letting it return back to his lap. Exhaling he looked back at Kaden and added, “There are very few absolutes.”
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Post by Kaden on Dec 17, 2009 19:44:46 GMT -8
"A few individuals don't make a community. Well," Kaden said temporizing, "it can. But this ship requires a certain amount of people to make it function as a ship so for the purposes of this community you need a certain amount of people. If most people leave I would no longer consider the ship operational and the community intact. But perhaps you do not share that intuition."
Kaden tapped his hand against his thigh, thinking of where to go next. He had to find the right question but he decided he'd better do another short summary first. "So tell me if this sounds right to you. Without a law against reasonless murder a large portion of any community's population would abandon that community. Hmm. I have a few questions for you then. Would you say that one of the purposes of a law, along with protecting us from the world's harms, could be to hold a community together? And," Kaden said pausing, thinking through his questions, "why would community's arise in the first place? Why are we trying to find the laws that govern them? What is the purpose of agreeing to work with another individual?"
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Post by Deux on Dec 18, 2009 17:08:09 GMT -8
Deux looked down when Kaden spoke about the ship. He knew there were numerous people onboard but he never stopped to think about them all. That they needed to keep an amount of trained individuals constantly on board. Without them it would become difficult or impossible to function properly. While he had known before that the ship could crippled by removing just a few crew members, he never considered much beyond that.
He thought about another realization. Kaden’s appeared to have the habit of saying one thing then continuing, adding further criteria. This seemed especially true when he posed a question. Deux tilted his head and looked at the man. Another thing for him to consider after he was done with the task at hand. He was still having problems answering Kaden, no need to further complicate things for the moment.
“Yes that sounds correct and when presented in that manner, yes,” Duex said, “laws would keep communities together. I suppose that communities exist for the same reason the laws do, for protection. That could be why a community lacking them would dissolve. Protection is all I can think of other then needing others for help and production.”
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Post by Kaden on Jan 4, 2010 17:15:36 GMT -8
"Then I think," Kaden said with a smile, "we have finally come back to your question Deux and I also believe we have the first of our answers. You asked what rights and responsibilities you had as a UIR citizen. Well, here is the first of both. As a member of the UIR community, and this would be true of any community you are part of, bigger or smaller than the UIR, you have a right to protection, specifically protection of your life. You have a right to live and you, and those around you, have a responsibility to try to protect that right, protect and preserve your life as you must try to protect and preserve theirs. Without this basic understanding communities would not exist I think."
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Post by Deux on Jan 6, 2010 19:01:41 GMT -8
Deux leaned forward and closed his eyes. He ran both halves of the conversation, Kaden’s and his own through his mind. The transitions were usually appropriate and constructive. Except for the occasional distraction the time had been dedicated to finding answers.
He nodded mostly to himself and opened his eyes. “Alright,” he said sitting up.
The majority of Kaden’s statement made sense. Anything he did not would be processed later along with the information he was still confused about. Perhaps he could ask Kaden if he continued to have difficulty. One thing did stand out in his last statement, Deux could understand community coming together to protect each other, but he did not know why he needed a community to protect him. Deux added that to his concerns to think about at another time.
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Post by Kaden on Jan 20, 2010 12:39:35 GMT -8
Kaden stood up when Deux did. He hadn't intended to go on so long about Deux's question. In fact he hadn't really intended to speak at all. But it had been a long time since he'd been allowed to be an academic of any sort. Even back home he'd never really had the chance to study as much as he'd wanted. He'd always told himself he'd settle down to a life of quiet contemplation when his children had grown up and left the house. Considering he'd been 20 when he was having that thought the dream had been far off.
Since getting to the UIR he'd discovered a wealth of knowledge and new ideas that he just didn't have the time to fully explore. The Fleet did have university programs that would have allowed him to go to some of the galaxy's best schools at a reduced rate but he had to finish his initial commitment first and he was still in the middle of his first 5 years. Now, with Earthfall, who knew what things would be like.
But the conversation with Deux had tapped into a part of him he hadn't really known existed and watching Deux as he thought about what they had just discussed caused a moment of unexpected pain and regret. Kaden coughed to try to clear the tightness in his chest and walked over to the bars that separated them.
"You know," he said quietly, not really thinking about the fact that he was talking to a supposed enemy, not really thinking of the present at all. "I had a son once. I would have taught this to him." Kaden rubbed at his eyes a moment. He had stopped crying for Zeke a long time ago but it was habit after so many years.
Forcefully pulling himself out of his past he looked up at Deux. "We can continue tomorrow if you'd like," he suggested, a note of hopeful vulnerability in his voice that he hadn't meant to be there. "I wouldn't want to take up your time or attention, I know you have important duties to see to," he continued quickly. "But I did enjoy our conversation and I thank you for that if nothing else."
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Post by Deux on Jan 20, 2010 21:20:05 GMT -8
Deux tilted his head when Kaden coughed. He didn’t think the man was sick or had spoken until his throat was sore. A few others had similar mannerisms but he didn’t know what it meant. His curiosity regarding it disappeared when Kaden spoke again.
He crossed his arms and held them as close to his body as possible. Kaden sounded injured. It made Deux’s back tense and his jaw tense. Besides that he was wondering what had happened to Kaden’s son. His first assumption was death, seeing as he used the past tense but he did entertain a few others. Whatever the cause, Deux wasn’t going to ask about it, he already felt uncomfortable and he did not like the feeling. Even if he was willingly giving the information, it didn’t mean that Kaden wanted to be interviewed about the topic.
“I didn’t know,” he said while he shifted his weight.
He nodded and sat down, “I think I would like that if you don’t mind. Your welcome.”
Kaden had been wrong about his duties, watching the prisoner was his only real one. Correcting him didn’t seem import either so he laid back onto the ground. Deux closed his eyes and cleared his head.
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Post by Kaden on Jan 21, 2010 17:04:54 GMT -8
"I am glad," Kaden said quietly before turning his bed back to its proper position and laying down on it. "Good night Deux."
*Time skip*
"So yesterday we attempted to discover a law that governs human interactions, specifically those that govern why and how groups are formed, by looking at what is never done. Today, we shall attempt to discover if any other such rules exist, and, if they do, how they are connected to any rights or responsibilities a citizen may have. So I'll ask you to start. Is there something else you can see that might give us a clue to another one of these laws? Is there some behavior that you never see performed by any member of any society?"
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Post by Deux on Jan 21, 2010 19:46:39 GMT -8
Deux sat cross-legged outside Kaden’s cell. He had been balancing one of his knives on his finger tip, idling staring at the blade. When the man spoke he lifted his hand and caught the knife by the handle. After placing it back in it’s place he rested his chin against his wrist. Kaden had told him to think of other examples and he had been, with limited success.
“This ship seems to lack many laws other than the ones you addressed,” he replied, “Though I have seen individuals punished by other members of the crew. Other than that, I don’t believe I have seen the lack of actions you are asking about.”
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